L is for Leather Mentoring with J Tobias Perry

What made you decide to write this book on leather mentorship?

J. Tebias Perry:

Actually, I had this conversation with you over a drink. And one of my favourite bars here in London. And it was I had already started it at that point. And I was probably midways writing it, but I wasn’t sure what I wanted to actually do with it. So to answer your question, I felt that there was a need for it. Because there’s so many of us that go under like sirs, Masters daddies get into these dynamics, and there was really no literature around there about it, or to give like a compass, or a guide, if you will, how to get it, how to benefit from it, and what to do with actual mentorship. So I took the charge on to try to tackle not only the subject but to break it down. From my experiences.

Well, leather, mentorship, it has so many different layers that it comes with. It comes with having the know-how, and mastery in certain areas that people can benefit from. And those people, either you can seek them out or they can seek you out. I’m the type of person that I go in, I see a need in someone, because I judge a lot of contests. I have a lot of younger people in my downline. And I see a need for them to be the next leaders in the community. And I kind of take them under my wing as as I call them, My children. But I’m so that I see a need in them. And I encourage them to take up the mantle and take on certain responsibilities. And it’s leather, mentorship, it means so many different things. I mean, it’s an area of expertise as far as teaching single-tail teaching, competition, whatever the need is with this within my wheelhouse and know how I’m willing to share the information freely. And if even it’s some of my mentorships have been contractual. I think they’ve had timeframes. Some of them are ongoing because I mean, they are like, like I said previously, my children.

Dr Lori Beth Bisbey: I think that’s interesting because I think a lot of people don’t realize that you can have a mentor for your journey. But you can also have specific mentors for specific things. If you’re wanting to learn how to use a single tail, you can go and learn from somebody who’s experienced, who’s going to not only teach a class, but is going to take you and give you individual critique and help you build that skill. So that’s more of a mentorship than just kind of going along to a workshop where there is no agreement between you about the learning process because mentorship involves an agreement about the learning process. As you said, some are contractual, some are not. But there’s always a back and forth about what is it we’re doing here. And that defines the relationship. And I think people don’t realize that you can actually go and do that for specific things. It’s not just your whole journey.

J Tebias Perry: Yeah, you definitely can. And the beauty about that is that mentorship is not only just, you know, search by his nose, everything, so I’m coming to get this, this, this base of knowledge from him, because I learned as well from my mentees as well, because of, because of the age difference. And I call, they always call it well, we’re keeping you fresh, we’re going to keep you fresh on the information in certain terms, like, for instance, like pronouns, and nonbinary and learning these new terms. It was a challenge for me, and it is a challenge for me. But they are making me more knowledgeable of that, of that, that range of something that I found challenging, as well as me giving them a base of knowledge of something that, that, that I’m passionate about it that I have knowledge for as well.

Dr Lori Beth Bisbey: I think it’s really important. We, you know, if you’re teaching in any way, and mentorship does involve teaching, and involves role modelling, and things you always learn from the people that you’re working with. And the idea that that anybody who has the idea that they can’t continue to learn, I would be concerned about and that’s one of the best things about working with people that I know that you focus more on working with younger people, but you can have a younger mentor. That’s true. And an older man too. And sometimes, that’s just because somebody has started the journey late later in life. But sometimes it’s somebody who has a skill that you don’t have. And so, you know, like, Ah, I could find somebody to mentor me and a skill I don’t have even though I’m 60, and I’ve been around for fucking donkeys, here are the skills, I don’t have the things I don’t know. So although I’m an elder, it doesn’t mean that I won’t necessarily put myself under somebody’s tutelage for something, as well as learning from the people that I ended up mentoring.

J Tebias Perry: Exactly. It’s an exchange, it’s an exchange. And some people do, contractually, some people will say, Well, you know, there was this one contract that I was offered, or you can just come and stay with me for a month. And in exchange, if you stand with me in say, for instance, in Australia, for a month, you will teach me single tail, you’re teaching me this, you’re teaching me that. You teach me Shabari, you teach me this, and those exchanges are really normal. That is an exchange of different skill sets. versus me getting to stay in, say, Sydney, Australia, which we’re going to next week, is an exchange of mentorship. It really is. And it’s all in the book. But the main thing is that whomever you’re going to be structured under a mentorship. Don’t be afraid to vet them. And a lot of times, people are like, well, you know, I don’t have to vet Tobias. I don’t have to search by his because he’s so well-known in the community. I still, but you wouldn’t be very surprised, doctor, you’d be very surprised that some people who are well, let me back it up. There’s a difference and been in the community community for 40 years. And there’s a difference in being an elder 40 years versus elder 40 years is necessarily void of anyone that doesn’t have any infractions or consent violations. The elders are the ones with the standard, they are the educators, the teachers to pass me down knowledge. Those are the ones that you should be seeking. Just because someone say they’ve been in the community for two years, you still need to vet everybody that the 40 years and then the elders and if you find some people that really update they get upset about you vetting, an elder and elder needs to be vetted as well.

Dr Lori Beth Bisbey: The point is, that’s a misunderstanding of what vettng is. Vetting is a process one needs to protect you from exploitation. So that’s one part of vetting and that’s what people focus on. But vetting is also to figure out whether you’re a good fit, right? vetting is not just about protection vetting is like, what was it like working with this person? Because it may be that I think I’m going to do well with you. But then I talk to somebody you’ve worked with before and I realized actually your style might not work for me. I wouldn’t have found that out if I hadn’t had that other conversation. So it’s not just about protection, it’s also about does this person have the skill set I need. Are we likely to be a good fit? What are the areas that might be difficult for us because of our personalities? And you can find that out, not only just talking to the person, but by talking to other people who have been with them and worked with them, will give you a lot more information so that you two don’t waste your time with each other time is the only finite resource we’ve got.